The Journey of a couple of budding Pick Up Artists

Wednesday, September 20, 2006

Dominance vs submissiveness

One thing that the PUA material is generally missing but perhaps vaguely touched upon is the concepts of dominance and submissiveness.

There are many ways to dissect relationships in the modern (and mostly western world). The oprah type, the Freudian type, the new age spirituality type, the feminista type, the bogan type, the suburbian type... They are all very different, and the PUA point of view is highly appealing as it is based on what WORKS, not theories. It is probably more scientific than any science I have every been associated with. There is however, one model of looking at relationships that is based on theory yet is highly effective. One that I have been experimenting, observing, discussing in SL and perhaps practicing it to a certain degree in RL.

In the PUA stuff, we talked about being alpha, being dominant, leading etc. This is related. What I find is that many women like to be led, being taken control of. And this brings me to the ideas around the BDSM culture. Some girls are doms, some girls are subs, and same apply for men. You'd like to think that sometimes girls like you to treat them right, to show them affection, to be sweet and kind and loving... well, thats not going to go down very well if she is a submissive is it? She is looking for a dominant, someone to dominate her. And if she is a dom, she is going to abuse you a bit, treating you like a shitty slave anyway! They are looking for someone to boss over, to dominate over, being a control freak. You are expected to act like a pet, or a slave. Without narcissistic tendencies, its not going to go down too well for you.

Taking this idea into consideration, you might find that it explains a lot of things when you reflect upon your past experiences. The BDSM community in both the SL and the RL has some of the sanest people! Despite their image otherwise - we fear what we don't understand, thats understandable. With this understanding, you can see why drama queens behave the way they do, why, perhaps, you keep coming back to someone who treat you like shit. Also to consider is that dominance and submissiveness is not black and white, more like a gradient and its all relative. So there is always a period of power struggle.

it is a quick a dirty way of determing how you should treat a girl. Some girl like to be lead, not all. This is where the PUA stuff is lacking. Some girls like to lead and abuse you, some girls want you to be sweet with them. Keep in mind that there is the SSC of BDSM - Safe, Sane and Consential. So, there is a safety, trust aspeect of it. Which has a lot to do with the whole BDSM culture. Intimacy and trust. Don't be a fool and intrude into someone else's lives by performing dominance or submissiveness. You need to build rapport, trust. Being aware of these things is very useful.

Tuesday, September 19, 2006

The moment vs The Goal

These are probably the ends of two extremes. Some people live for the moment, some are goal oriented. Can we have the best of both worlds? -- Yes.

What if your goal is to live your life to the fullest every moment? What if every moment is to contribute to some higher level goal? When I sarge people, do I have to actually achieve something at the end? or ultimately? What makes a sarge successful? Is it the #*! closes? Are you successful when you are happy spending time with people you like and not worry about anything.

Thats right, not worrying about anything. What are the causes of our frustration? Perhaps we worry too much, we worry that we will be alone, we worry that we are unattractive, we worry that we have no value in life, we worry that we are unwanted. Perhaps we worry about not getting another friend like that, perhaps we worry that there will be time when we are lonely and it will be shit, perhaps we worry about the next chick you hook up with will be ugly (or fat). Perhaps you worry that you will die alone.

As humans, we all fear those things. As PUA's we protect ourselves from those fears. That is because they are the source of problems. We mistakenly derive our "goals" from those fears, thinking that we will be happy if we get them solved. We are looking for something, something to fill that void inside our hearts. This is the reality. It is not about being goal oriented, to want something in life or not. It is insecurity, disguised as rational bullshit. "Living the moment" is just as bad, if you do it wrong - you are searching for that temporary solution, instant gratification, a distraction from your anxieties. You need that hit.

Can we really predict the future? No. Are our actions today going to affect the future? Probably yes, no matter how minute. So what should we focus on? THe moment or the goal? BOTH I say. You have to be really clear on what your goal is and you have to be spot on with how you make decisions in the moment.

Process of letting go

It is thought that being uptight is bad. Being rigid is bad. Yes, sure it is, but thank god I was uptight and rigid!

In the preface of the book People Skills, Robert Bolton talked about how he had to learn people skills, how he taught himself from being a below average to a very social person. How it is the fact that it is not natural to him that he know consciously what makes things work and what doesn't.

It is the same for being rigid and uptight. If it wasn't for those things I would not have learnt the differences. If not for the history of being uptight, I would not understand the consequences. Without the process of loosening myself up, I would not be able to see the key traits that distinguish between the two.

Just like marshall arts, the more relaxed you are the more flexible you are, the more you are ready to adapt and strike at any moment. You don't waste unnecessary energy, you will be more powerful. Being relaxed in the mind, being flexible in the mind is advantageous, but it is not easy. A structured mind is easy because of the narrowed view you have to deal with but at the expense of flexibility.

In the sarging world though, letting go allows you to open up your perception. Your perception tend to narrow down when you tense up. Why do we need perception? Because we need the flexibility to see things FROM YOUR REALITY! You need to be able to turn anything into something you like, you enjoy and have fun. You are congruent, and composed. Your reality is that you love your life, you enjoy what you do and you make everything fun and awesome. If you have a narrow definition of what is good, a definition that is dependent on the external world, a particular event, morals, the DVD player working or not... You see the problem?

What does that say about you? You are not fun, the movie was, you are not a source of happiness, the girl was entertaining you. What do you think is your value? What have you got to offer? Only when you let go that you can see these subtle things.

Too busy sarging

These days, its all about sarging to me. I sarge in RL, I sarge in SL. I am experimenting with long term seduction, ala Robert Greene. When socialising, I use Juggler. Screening for red flags, I use Doc Love.

It has been a long learning period and finally, a lot of these have been put to real life usage. Many things are emerging and I am beginning to see how it works for a lot of women. Attraction can be sparked, and you can cast spells on people, making them fall in love with you - and the only thing you have to do is change yourself.

The only way to enjoy life fully is to let go. I think I have mixed passion/enthusiasm with the obsession of outcome. Sure you want something, or you want to achieve something (e.g., have great experiences, pride, whatever). But I know from many many experiences that it is always the best when you least expected it. Find something that is thrilling in the actul thing you do, not outcome.

In sarging, enjoy the sarge, enjoy the exchange in the energy. At work, enjoy the challenges you encounter every day. If you focus and enjoy what you DO - you've already won. They say that the PUA's paradox is that if you don't care, you will get the girl. But this doesn't mean that you cannot get a kick out of sarging girls.

The seduction process is as much about getting the girl to seduce you as you seducing the girl. You being turned on by her is a turn on for her and vice versa. Look for these things, get fascinated by the process. There is much knowledge to be gained about both yourself and the girl.

Thursday, September 14, 2006

Risk vs pleasure

I like Jimmy's comment on pleasure and risk. It is a very realistic analysis of how things usually goes.

When you get as something good - you have to pay for it. And you don't always know the price, you only find out when you actually go through with the process. It is simply a fact of life. However, lets not just see thing from a disappointment point of view, the opposite is also always true! That is, if you pay for something in advance, something good will also come around the corner. Just as well, you do not know how good it is around the corner!

I have been questioning a lot about this risk-benefit thing lately. It seems to be one of the core issues I have with sarging in general. What are we getting out of it? When should we give up? Does it matter what outcome there is? My conclusion so far is to just not care.

We know that if we don't get something we want, thats bad, and that if we get something that we don't want, thats bad. Getting something we want is good. But if we get something that is ambivalent to us, is it good?

Those who care the least, wins - but perhaps, we need to build on our ability to make everything ambivalent, but know how to turn the ambivalent things into something enjoyable.

Tuesday, September 12, 2006

On being a nice guy

My experience have been different from some of the popular beliefs in the community.

I have been called a nice guys many times. Often, during or after sex, or even before the sex when the girls were sarging me. Now what does it mean? YES, I get to sleep with girls who called me a nice guy and NO, I am not with them now. Is my sarging successful?

It is not what they say that matters, but HOW they say it. Classic isn't it? When they say "You are such a nice guy" can be said in a condescending way, pity kinda way, blend/blank kinda way, or a totally admiring and mesmerizing way. And also, calling you a nice guy can be done in different ways, compare these:

"oh my, you are a pretty nice guy!"


"John, you are a very nice guy."

You see the difference? Don't be fooled about being a nice guy or not, it has no merit on their attraction level what so ever! If you are a nice guy and want to be and choose to be, then BE ONE! Don't be an idiot and try to be someone you are not. You are a master salesman and you can sell yourself wherever!

Monday, September 11, 2006

Insight from SL

So, internet dating have become more and more acceptable. The stigma associated is slowly deteriorating, we hear endless stories of people cheating on the net, meet new people, hooking up and even getting married. Increasingly, more and more people are going for these ways of meeting people and more likely than not, a lot of us have gave it a go.

True, there are success stories but there are thousands of failures and the long term results might not be so ideal. And also true is that there are still resistance and disapproval from lots of people about the whole internet thing. However, the other truth is that the new generation have been grown up with the internet. There is a whole new generation of people who grew to embrace digital life as a real way of life. Afterall, what is real? what is important? If your interaction via the net isn't real, your interaction via the phone real? fax? letters? Well, how about emails? Casanova certainly did think letters are a true form of seduction and intimate interaction!

The internet is different, thats for sure, the mode of interaction and the instantaneous nature of it as well as the disposable nature of it exists. But just as easy as you end a relationship with someone, you can quickly get another one. No one have done studies on the logetivity of an online relationship but what abut in Real life (RL)? Are we realistic in our belief towards the authenticity of RL relationships?

Food for thought...

Second life

Have you heard of second life? Its a MMOG (massive multiplayer online game). Its like the sims but you create everything. This is so addictive.

I've been practicing sarging in Second Life (SL) and the principle is actually quite the same. The truth is, you don't know whether they are really women or not. Many feels like they are though but who cares! It is actually a very good form of practice. If you just don't care in Real Life (RL), you can treat people like you do in SL. The problem is, we take ourselves too seriously in RL, where as in the game, you care less and you just want to have fun.

Transfer that attitude to RL and you will find yourself talking to more women than you did before.

Thursday, September 07, 2006


Doc Love was right, you feel shit in the beginning to stand your ground and not give in. You feel like - why am I not meeting the girls I want? Why do I have to resist the temptation? Oh I am never going to meet quality girls.

Guess what? I've been through the other side of that and its an endless field full of dasies over here. It is extremely interesting how things seems totally different on hindsight. I was really upset about how some girls are AS (anti-seductive), not interested, whatever, and all I could do is to get into endless circles of why this and why that. Often, things go so well but all of a sudden, you feel like they are slipping away, you want to do more, you want to be nicer, you do more things for her, and there is NO exception that this fails every single time - you can only delay the inevitable.

But I have taken a different approach, I didn't even know that it actually helps build back attraction, but all I knew was, if it isn't working for me, I don't want it! Falcon raised some interesting questions about this mindset, questions that I have gone through many many times before and was unable to resolve it. This was because of my lack of experience, lack of proof, evidence to show me what works and what doesn't work. I have essentially been doing the same thing over and over again, hoping that it will work eventually, or that the more effort I put into it, I can work it out.

No no no no no. Wrong.

You know, girls are evil things. They do things to sabotage themselves! Or, they are natural geniuses, knowing how to screen out the chumps and pick out the champions. Whatever the reason is, I don't think we can ever find out, but empirical data shows that girls are not impressed by try hards, by compromising, nice guys. Nice guys don't know how to be nice, thats the problem. Being nice doesn't mean being an AFC, Think about it this way. Does doing something nice to a girl means you have to let her disrespect you? Knowing that a girl might tend to disrespect you, why do you allow it to happen? "But Ross, Mum told me I shouldn't care about what other people think..."

No son, false dichotomy. Bad. What has caring about what other people think has anything to do with preventing others from wasting your time? Your time is precious, your life, your energy, your health are precious. Are they important to you? Havn't thought about that much? They are certainly important for me! If I am respectful of myself and my parents, I wouldn't let jerks, or bitches, or anybody sabotage my well being. So, coming back to my point of bing a nice guy - the typical nice guy is not just a nice guy, but a dumb, whiney, little shit who makes excuses all the time.

Will a self respecting HB go out with a "Nice guy" like that? If you are a self respecting girl, will you like someone like that? Probably not. stop deluting yourself. STOP IT!

A quality guy respects himself, he UNDERSTANDS respect. Afterall, can a guy respect others if he doesn't understand what self respect means? Are you a self respecting person if you dont know what you want in life? When it comes to girls, will you totally lack direction and simply take on any bullshit they throw at you? Where is your backbone?

In contrast, guy who respect himself, a guy who knows what he wants and where his is going makes his attraction for a girl much MUCH more valuable. What is the value of a UG1 liking you huh? He likes you because you are his type, not because his is lonely or need validation, if she is not your type, you simply move on - and a girl will test you on this. They need to make sure you are not those AFC types. They need to know that you have direction in life, you do things and you let her tag along, because you like her. Not because of rituals or formalities, not because thats what people do when they date.

It explains a lot doesn't it? Hindsight is interesting isn't it? Unless you've climbed over the mountain, bare the pain, you will not be able to see the other side.

The guy who cares the least, wins

Dude, this is so true. I've been forgetting about sarging for awhile. There have been a couple of "subjects" that I have sort of abandoned, but now I LJBF-ed them.

Guess what that does? It makes them like you more! If you care not, they like you more! The thing is, you have to not care, and be truely not care - You cannot fake a friendship in hope of something happens. It really does seems like interest level on your part will stuff you up big time!

I find that it isn't even about pushing or pulling. You don't have to be nasty, you don't have to be C&F, you just have to give a vibe that you don't give a shit. Yes, you like them, you can get turned on by them, and YES, you FLAUNT that you do. Yet - you don't care. I am not talking about suppression of your feelings, I am not talking about denial of it - I am talking about you are fully aware of what women can do to you (put you in ASOC), you do not hide it, in fact, you indulge it. But you just don't care.

No agenda, no insecurities, no bullshit. This seems to be attractive. Perhaps this has to do with safety, trust, etc.

In a way, letting go allows me to do things that is supposed to be AFC-ish. But this is a new discovery for me. If you do AFC actions but come from a frame of "I just don't give a damn about it" - it is not necessarily AFC! The important thing here is to remember that you are in control, you are screening and you can turn things on and off at will. You are not bounded by rules, you know your boundries and you play by YOUR rules, YOUR reality. I can see the distinction really clearly now - It is not your action that makes you an AFC, it is your AFC ass that makes your action AFC. Where you are coming from, what is your frame is way WAY more important.

Once you are very clear on that, knowing who you are, you can be comfortably be yourself and screen out all THEIR AFC, AS (anti-seductive) behaviours! They do anything bad, you walk, they do anything bad, you cut them off and go cold, you might even want to point it out to them. Do not ever make excuses for them!

I've discovered a whole new level of seduction, a kinda slow, long term seduction.

Monday, September 04, 2006

Enough women...

Do you ever feel like "aah, I've had enough of women for now, I am taking a rest." ???

Thats what I feel like after 2 dates last week. I felt like I've been over exposed. Perhaps thats the most I can do, 2 dates a week. You know that strange feeling you get after having too much sex? You just want to stay away from girls and do some boy stuff, like playing with your model tank or something.

Maybe its just me.

Saturday, September 02, 2006

Difference between initial attraction vs dating

It is very clearn in my mind now that creating that initial attraction in the first meeting is different from the subsequent steps.

It is much MUCH easier to be yourself and just have fun in the beginning to achieve something highly effective. However, the same strategy cannot be applied. I think it is in one of Doc Love's quotes "Everyone new is attractive". This helps in the beginning, and you can apply the principle of not trying so hard or just being friendly and have fun.

I don't think this is enough beyond the initial attraction. You need something more insidious to achieve a powerful effect, to make them do the work. This is probably the key, the main focus. We have to work towards her interest level so that she actually do the work! Must settle for nothing less. Do not compensate your lack in that area by asking her out, buying her affection or giving in with red flags! You lose self respect, you lose your residency in PUA land and you will be deported back into... you guessed it, hobo land on heat!

Juggler's seduction school on YouTube

Field Report: Helen

Everything you do is an experience, everytime you throw caution into the wind, you learn. This must have been the 6th or 7th date with Helen. I think I've talked to Jimmy about this and I mentioned I am going to give her a last try. So I did - not only I tried, but I gave all that I had for it - I tried to like her. But its just not happening. Like Doc Love said - you date her interest level, and you marry her attitude and integrity.

Looking at it from this point of view, her attitude is like a little girl, structured, unimaganitive, and is not quite aware at my level. This definitely doesn't spark me in anyway. Not funny, not intelligent, the only thing she had going for her was her interest level and that she is rather cute. My assessment of her interest level is at about 70% or something, and I guess she is about a 5 to me. This barely warrent a good interaction, on the way, there were many red flags:

- Donating money to people she doesn't know what it is (especially when they were wearing army uniforms)
- Only want to eat things she couldn't cook at home (rather than whatever she feels like)
- Checking maps, called too many times to confirm the meeting
- All conversations revolved around daily happenings, as fact, a whole series of do's
- Doesn't listen! Waits for her turn to speak about her shit
- Don't know how to connect, neither conversation nor dancing

Made me cringe time and time again. I really tried to have a good time but it was average. I did not have fun, I cannot get her to seduce me. Maybe I am just not inspiring her, whatever it is, its not working. Time to drop it - friends only. So, Jimmy, shes all yours! HA HA. Oh, she is pretty cute and I will get her to put on her office suit for you, lol.

What I am worried about is - am I picking on the little things because I am afraid, or that I really sense that she is not really interested. Maybe it doesn't matter, I remember Doc Love's definition of a red flag is something that makes you feel "something is odd". There are heaps of this feeling but I can't quite make out what it is most of the time. I hope I am not being too protective. Interesting lesson. Its great to be able to see this, hopefully, the more I do this, the easier it is for me to see these things.

The ego

I went out with Helen yesterday and at the end of the date, she invited me into her house, offered me coffee and munchies and then she went straight into working on her dead landlord's documents saying that she had to do it. Weird. Being a PUA, I stood up and walked. She then said "I might call you tomorrow when I am free." Not sure how I'd feel tomorrow, I said "yeah, ok" But this was dumb, coz it is sort of the "definitely maybe" proposal which Doc Love warned. Well, guess what? she didn't call and I feel shit about it.

The ego is a funny thing. Why does it feel so bad when a girl doesn't follow through with what she said? It hits the ego hard and it hurts. Even when you know its not worth the time, even when you do not have oneitis, even when you have multiple things going on at the same time, even if she isn't someone you are interested in - if a girl isn't showing her affection to you, no matter how crap she is (even a UG1, perhaps!), it hurts your ego. In fact, it probably hurts your ego more if she isn't that good to begin with.

I can't laugh it off sometimes. I don't know why. Am I insecure about myself? Do I need validation? I feel offended, I feel unwanted, unattractive. I feel like the worse being on earth. Why is so much happiness dependent on such tiny little thing? Anyway, I am sucking it all up and swallowing it down. Guess this is the only way to learn.


I had my first dancing lesson yesterday. It was great! I enjoyed it very much and I really like the connection/interaction you make with your dancing partner. This is exactly what I am looking for - an acceptable way to express intimacy with girls in public. Its sexy but not quite sexual.

This is exactly what I was looking for. I found that this is a way of expressing myself outside of conversation. It will give me more confident in physical contact and LEADING a woman into more romantic/intimate realms. Can build good tension without saying a single word. This will definitely come in handy in sarging.


I know its against SS to date. But I am...

I don't really know what to think of dating. If you think of dating as a way of getting the girl, it is probably a horrible idea. I guess, to some degree, I am hoping that I can have a chance to *get some* on the back of my mind but intellectually I am telling myself (or rationalising) that I am just having a good time and whatever it is, it will be good. -- is that so bad? Does that sound like a wuss?

I've been dating. I set up a small date last friday and I set up two this week. Both were very good although I did walk out of it feeling empty. I mean, I am getting pissed off at not getting anything but at the dates were good after all, and I didn't "buy" them anythin. Besides, I am getting other chances to meet up with the girls for more fun, it is a good thing right?

So far, my PU training have been on the very early stages of a sarge, ie, pre-approach, inner game, opening, rapport building, comfort building etc. This is a completely different area and it is confusing. I am trying to monitor it using Doc Love's ideas - to make sure she doesn't disrespect me, screen for undesirable behaviours and gauging interest level etc.

At the moment, I am playing really safe here, I am staying in the friends frame, which will put me at risk with the LJBF thing. But I guess thats ok too. I will be able to get what I want out of it even if I get LJBF'ed (I want fun good times with awesome ladies). I can walk away, I have choices! But here is where I am confused - when you date, there will always be time when you feel like you are on the line. That you are confronted to choose a path to walk down. Only very few girls take initiative or that she has extremely high interest level that they will be actively providing opportunities to get intimate with you. An average girl with a modest level of interest just won't do it. YOU WILL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING BOLD. You will have to take her out of that normal zone into the romantic zone. My confusion is, whether I should take that opportunity and make things happen or to walk if they do nothing about it? I did the latter coz its safe...

I really don't know: Feeling like you have to catch that opportunity has scacity mentality, while walking away is wussy rationalisation... What would a PUA do what should I do?


Sexual secrets for men

I've been reading a book called Sexual Secrets for men by Kerry and Diane Riley. It feels really new age and is completely different from the sarging things I have been reading (I guess a PUA have to be multi-talented eh?). It has a lot of relationship maintenance and does not really encouage "sexing". Rather, it promotes the idea of "love making" and talked about the importance of the establishment of connecting souls (or something like that, and yeah, rather new age).

The introductory chapters tried to establish the idea of the exchange of energies that only comes from commitment, dedication in a deep loving relationship. Then, the book gets into the technicalities of tantric or taoist sex. It opened my eyes up to many interesting concept that I am actually quite skeptical of, and then, there are those that explained a lot of my past experiences. For example, whole body orgasm, ejectulation control with the "PC muscle" etc.

One interesting thing that Kerry talked about was how men are usually conditioned to perform and do not know how to receive pleasure - I can totally identify with that, I actually CANNOT stand receiving but I really never thought about it much. Thinking back in my past relationships, I would get forceful when I approach climax and will overpower the girl, or she will try to overpower me by tieing me up. One failed relationship I had was because I couldn't receive and is denying her control over my sexual pleasures. Oh well, some girls really do give bad *.jobs... :(

This made me realise how ignorant I am with regard to sex. Its definitely worth pursuing after but how? You seems to only be able to do it with a loving partner...